Curse

scrinner · Sep 01, 2006, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Truth be told aspenwood needs a litttle work on NPC Aggro. Once for some strange reason Master architect gunther just walked out of the gate during a luxon invasion gone wrong. With only a few percenrt left, The turtles finished gunther off without a sweat.

StarryNites · Sep 01, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:Why would turtle have 8 warriors when it should be only 4 anyway?

got attacked by turtle with 12 warriors one side and 4 on the other gate

u tried stoppin 12 luxon warriors n turtle + couple of players comin thru 1 gate (u also got the 4 + turtle comin other gate)using coward wiped out all team in about 30 secs was funny at time

but if people click to this trick kurzick will stand no chance at Fort Aspenwood

as for gatekeepers &^%&^% stop runnin off out the gates
seen them go as far as front gate n stop there like sittin ducks

also people gettin stuck in/under the stairs down to the green gate area

and dont start me on leechers

have had team with 3 of us fightin 5 leechin wtf

Ole Man Bourbon · Sep 01, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Hint: Bring EoE on the Luxon side and if I'm on the Luxon side, too, with my bread and butter build, I'll be friggin pissed.

BTW the reason the turtles are powerful is to counter the Kurz monk/bonder element. Problem for Kurz is there are lots of offense-oriented Eles and Wammos and not enough healers/defender types on their side.

Curse You · Sep 01, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symon Butterthingers

allow me to disagree. At the rate things die in aspenwood even 1 second EoE is up is more than enough to do lethal damage. And even if you kill it, luxon player can always just oath shot and put it up again.

Let me look at something... Eoe, what does that skill do again? Oh yea, hurts all creatures of the same species. So, wait, aren't Luxon and Kurzick players the same species?
Also, isn't there a little spirit thing sitting around, you know, making the effect? Maybe if you kill it, the effect will go away. Also, maybe if you kill the guy making it, then it won't be there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symon Butterthingers

you have been given two distinct ways to deal with it and one of them you named yourself. Now you turn around and say "no". How does this make any sense?

So you're saying that because two unrelated things have counters, Luxon players have nothing to complain about? Nice logic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symon Butterthingers

errr... no it is not. Loosing even both turtles does not make you auto lose. You still have 8 players to push thru weak NPC and kurzick players. Sure it is much harder, but hey 8 warriors per turtle is fine to, right?

Yes, right, weak NPCs AND 8 other players, sounds like a perfect match.

I think you may want to reconsider your argument, mostly because you're a one man force on this. Noone else seems to agree with you.
This issue can only be countered by killing the exploiter, as it is with any bug. Just because you killed the exploiter, doesn't mean it isn't a bug.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 01, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

I'm with Orinn and Symon on this. It isn't a problem, and npc's do stupid things. Why doesn't the gatekeepers avoid AoE & kite?
Because they don't. Adapt.
But yeah, Orinn is also right that it's strange that the luxon warriors will run off into the sunset following anyone they don't like. They should return to the turtle sooner. But on the other hand, would Luxons be happier having them guard the body of a dead turtle while the rest of the team is fighting inside the green door?

To that I'll add that I do not think "irreversible" means what you guys think it means. It's hard to instruct people in FA to "do not run close to or attack the luxon warriors standing around holding their dicks". Most times the warriors will be reactivated again within seconds.

To the rest I'll say the same as I say to the people complaining about FA being unfairly hard for Kurzicks: rubbish.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Sep 01, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15

You really think that getting the Luxon warriors stuck and doing nothing and the turtle never respawning is a legitimate tactic? Give me a break, why even have a spawn point for them then? Let's just make it so that they dont ever spawn and spare us the lame excuses people are giving for how it's not a bug.

I'm not even complaining about balance or fairness issues here. It's a clear cut bug. The Kurzick NPCs also have issues and those should be fixed too but all of you denying that this is anything but a bug, you're all on crack.

dargon · Sep 01, 2006, 08:16 AM // 08:16

The problem isn't that the warriors are being led away and the turtle killed, the problem is that the warriors are being led away in such a manner that their PATHING glitches and they get hung up on a small rock or something and can't get to where they are trying to go. Their code basically says, follow path X or Y, which leads from their spawn point to the closest gate. Their code also says, if something bad enters my agro circle, chase after it and kill it and then return to path by the most direct route available. The problem is, people are now leading them on a merry chase around the map and when the chase ends, they try to return, but the most direct route effectively ends in an obstacle. Their code says move towards destination at all times, except when chasing a target. Put an obstacle in the way of that and it blocks them because they aren't smart enough to move away from their destination and then resume moving towards it from a different position. This problem is no different than the problem with the npcs in the canthan city when the game was released, they get caught on obstacles and their basic AI isn't setup to find a way around the obstacle.

Symon Butterthingers · Sep 01, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Let me look at something... Eoe, what does that skill do again? Oh yea, hurts all creatures of the same species. So, wait, aren't Luxon and Kurzick players the same species?

that exactly what my point holds on... they SHOULDNT be same species. There is not reason for them to be. And in the context where death occurs no penalty (quick respawn times for NPC) it is easily exploited by suiciding. This exactly the problem with stacked luxon warriors - people exploit respawn flaw and no penalty for death.

Quote:

Also, isn't there a little spirit thing sitting around, you know, making the effect? Maybe if you kill it, the effect will go away. Also, maybe if you kill the guy making it, then it won't be there.

read the thing you've quoted please.

Quote:

So you're saying that because two unrelated things have counters, Luxon players have nothing to complain about? Nice logic.

Yes. In fact this is how most things work around here. It is not broken if it can be countered. I have been told this exactly same thing so many times, tha i finaly believed in it.

Quote:

Yes, right, weak NPCs AND 8 other players, sounds like a perfect match.

the point was that Luxons have huge NPC advantage to begin with. It get worse with 8 wars per turtle, but according to you it is still fine. But when kurzicks get NPC advantage that suddenly becomes horribly broken.

Quote:

I think you may want to reconsider your argument, mostly because you're a one man force on this. Noone else seems to agree with you.
This issue can only be countered by killing the exploiter, as it is with any bug. Just because you killed the exploiter, doesn't mean it isn't a bug.

Noone else of like 5 people talking? So? I'm not good at following the crowd, so you'll have to do a bit better than that.

ChildeOfMalkav · Sep 01, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symon Butterthingers

that exactly what my point holds on... they SHOULDNT be same species. There is not reason for them to be. And in the context where death occurs no penalty (quick respawn times for NPC) it is easily exploited by suiciding. This exactly the problem with stacked luxon warriors - people exploit respawn flaw and no penalty for death.

Luxons and Kurzicks shouldnt be the same species? Why not? They're both hunans. Do you even know what species mean? So now you're saying that EoE is an exploit because Kurzicks and Luxons shouldnt be the same species?

How do you consistantly spout this nonsense, Ira?

Trvth Jvstice · Sep 01, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

I play Ft Aspenwood a Lot and I haven't seen this problem concerning the turtles respawning. The problem I've seen most often with the turtles is them getting stuck at one of the gates.

Other than the first wave of Turtles, I'm not usually concerned with them anyway. By the time the Turtles start dying we're usually through the inner gate and attacking the green gate NPCs (or should be, if people knew how to play this mission).

What frustrates me is, when the green gate is open to attack and you see someone spamming "I'm talking to Purple Commander." While I'm pulling my hair out I try to let them know we should forget about the Turtles now and concentrate on the NPCs.

If only there was a pop-up at the start of the mission that stated "The goal of this mission is to kill Master Archetect Gunther. He is behind the Green Gate."

some guy · Sep 01, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

The game is bugged on both sides, so let's just stop the arguing try to deal with the bugs.

lansid_drakken · Sep 01, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Wanna know an even WORSE bug?

Twice I've taken it upon myself to attack the orange priest/commander with my Warrior... easy enough. UNTIL... the turtle respawns with it's 4 warriors.. and ANOTHER 4 warriors respawn, making it a total of 8 warriors with THAT turtle!

So far been able to duplicate it twice, as it's kinda difficult to be alone, killing the commander when the turtle JUST respawns...

To the best of my knowledge... the priest has to be dead, and commander to be engaged in fighting... needless to say I'm not "excited" about duplicating it on purpose, as it makes it even more difficult. =\

Curse You · Sep 01, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symon Butterthingers

that exactly what my point holds on... they SHOULDNT be same species. There is not reason for them to be. And in the context where death occurs no penalty (quick respawn times for NPC) it is easily exploited by suiciding. This exactly the problem with stacked luxon warriors - people exploit respawn flaw and no penalty for death.

Why don't you use that powerful AoE you seem to find so overpowered to deal with them? Fire isn't the only element, Earth can tank well over 10 warriors, and kill them while doing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symon Butterthingers

Yes. In fact this is how most things work around here. It is not broken if it can be countered. I have been told this exactly same thing so many times, tha i finaly believed in it.

Let's see. The bug with 8 warriors can only be acomplished by the side that it effects (only a Kurzick can make it happen). The Gate Keepers are irratic, an only sometimes run out, without any influence from the Luxons.
Yet, the warriors can be "trapped" by a Kurzick player, and only by a Kurzick player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symon Butterthingers

the point was that Luxons have huge NPC advantage to begin with. It get worse with 8 wars per turtle, but according to you it is still fine. But when kurzicks get NPC advantage that suddenly becomes horribly broken.

Yes, such an advantage. 2 warriors with 2 Seige Turtles against 8 Earth Elementalists, 5 Necos, 5 Rangers, 4 Assassins, 4 Mesmers and 2 Monks. I wonder what would happen if a Monk were to bond one of those gate NPCs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symon Butterthingers

Noone else of like 5 people talking? So? I'm not good at following the crowd, so you'll have to do a bit better than that.

I think you missed the point of the satement you quoted.

Maybe you should stop arguing. I don't know what you must think this is about.

Everyone else has acknowleged this as a bug, and they have aknowledged the Gatekeepers running out as a bug. The 8 warriors is not as much of a bug, because it is triggered by the team that dislikes it, however, it is still a bug.

Symon Butterthingers · Sep 02, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Why don't you use that powerful AoE you seem to find so overpowered to deal with them? Fire isn't the only element, Earth can tank well over 10 warriors, and kill them while doing it.

Aoe? i think overpowered? deal with what?
this is like the most random thing i've read in whole day.

Quote:

Let's see. The bug with 8 warriors can only be accomplished by the side that it effects (only a Kurzick can make it happen). The Gate Keepers are irratic, an only sometimes run out, without any influence from the Luxons.
Yet, the warriors can be "trapped" by a Kurzick player, and only by a Kurzick player.

8 warriors isn't exactly accomplished, it happens when you try to do your objective, otherwise I agree. Still I don’t see how this is related to the part of my post you've quoted...

Quote:

Yes, such an advantage. 2 warriors with 2 Seige Turtles against 8 Earth Elementalists, 5 Necos, 5 Rangers, 4 Assassins, 4 Mesmers and 2 Monks.

interesting way to count insanely overpowered KD+spike team + death machine doing 300+ AoE damage every 10 seconds vs bunch of pretty average NPCs. Out of all those only eles are somewhat good, but still require monk support, otherwise drop dead in 2 shots from turtle.

Quote:

I wonder what would happen if a Monk were to bond one of those gate NPCs?

I wonder if you've read multiple discussions on that matter on this very forum. In short: learn to counter.

Quote:

I think you missed the point of the satement you quoted.

quiet possible... Feel free to enlighten me.

Quote:

Maybe you should stop arguing. I don't know what you must think this is about.

Why? Have anyone proven me wrong? Where?
You see, this is what pisses me off. Statements like "you have no clue", "this is obvious", bias accusations and such... If you have nothing else to say, just don't say anything.

Quote:

Everyone else has acknowleged this as a bug, and they have aknowledged the Gatekeepers running out as a bug. The 8 warriors is not as much of a bug, because it is triggered by the team that dislikes it, however, it is still a bug.

As I already said "everyone" is rather strong word in this case.

Alfrond · Sep 02, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

I don't really see why we need to be fighting so passionately about this. Would any one really be very upset if the turtle spawning bug, the gatekeepers leaving green gate bug, and the 8 warrior bug were all gotten rid of at the same time? I realize some of this argueing is due to the Kurzick/Luxon rivalry but if those bugs were gotten rid of then both sides benefit, right? (I realize I only mentioned fixing one bug on the Luxon side but its really the only one I know of)

Leonof · Sep 04, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symon Butterthingers

it is a simple analogy. Something that makes you lose is not an exploit.

Well something that makes you win doesn't make it not an exploit. This one is obviously an exploit. If the wars were meant to be just lured away like that, than they might as well not be there. The luxons need the turtles because it is their best offense. I don't mind ppl stalling the squads, actually a great tactic, but this isn't stalling, it's a permanent stop. You do this once and the turtles are gone and the only way luxons can win if their whole team is close to perfect.

People think it's not a bug saying the kurzicks have bugs too. Thats a stupid and flawed logic, theyr'e both bugged then and the best way is to fix both problems. Best solution I can think of is make the warriors advance to gunther til they die and make the gatekeepers stay inside green gate. There might be other bugs but they are rare.

Caged Fury · Sep 04, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Even though there are quite a few bugs that the Kurzick side are faced with and need to be addressed, it does not alter the fact that this is a bug. Luxon warriors running off after someone and then standing around like lemons, because their turtle is dead, is clearly a bug. Even if the warrior's AI was programmed as per the Design Specification to do this, then it is still a defect - not a program one but a design bug.

In short, it IS a bug!

thecrimsonblade · Sep 04, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

A few of my guildies and myself found that if you attack as a group with everybody at one gate taking out everything as you go. Then work right to left of left to right depending on which gate you took out first. The fort can be taken down in just a few min and the Kurzicks never know what hit them glitch or not. Nobody on our team died even once and our turtles blasted the hell out of them. While Kurzicks ran around in a panic we laid waste to them one after the other.

Trvth Jvstice · Sep 05, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

@thecrimsonblade: I don't know how many times you've played Ft aspenwood, but although that strategy works fairly often, many times my team has been brought to a quick halt when an enemy monk hid behind the gate and bonded/healed the kurzic ele. Of course when I play my N/Me I can put a stop this, but I also play my warrior and assassin there.

My point is: You must have faced a below average/average kurzic team. It's imo impossible to steamroll a well prepared organized team of kurzics.

Curse You · Sep 05, 2006, 02:40 AM // 02:40

So now there are a bunch of Bugs in Fort Aspenwood that need fixing, and some more in Jade Quarry.

(Jade Quarry bugs)
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ferrerid=92302